(trigger warnings for death threats and threats of rape)
Things in the Teen Wolf fandom are, admittedly, almost always an unbearable shitstorm of hate, with fans doing everything from using offensive slurs against cast members to calling for their rape and murder. This is not representative of everyone in the Teen Wolf fandom, but I will not lie when I say the best advice that I can give to someone new to the fandom is: find a few cool people to follow on Tumblr and then stay the fuck out of the tags. There is nothing but hate there. But while this sort of bullshit tends to be the norm in this fandom, the past few days have been utterly unbearable.
What caused utter anarchy to fall upon the Teen Wolf fandom? Simply this: an interviewer decided to ask Tyler Posey, Tyler Hoechlin, and Holland Roden yet another tiresome question about the Sterek pairing, and Posey gave a honest answer about his feelings toward the ship.
His comment about Sterek begins at 1:29.
Since then, Posey has received a deluge of hate and even death threats from shippers who were hurt by what he said. But what really grinds my gears is that
what started out as a crack ship has gained so much power that the Teen Wolf Powers That Be have chosen to support it over their lead actor, Tyler Posey. And that is so far beyond the pale that I cannot even contain my rage.
First, let’s talk about what Posey said in the video, because we on this site have talked about other celebrities and writers who have said similar things, and we have almost always taken the side of the fandom. Why am I taking Posey’s side here? Well, Posey’s comments are different from, say, Steven Moffat’s queerbaiting, where he has said John and Sherlock are “definitely a love story” but “if [Sherlock were gay] he wouldn’t fancy John”. Tyler Posey doesn’t have the power to make Sterek happen. Nor is this similar to the time when, at a Supernatural convention, a girl who admitted to being bisexual tried to ask about Dean’s potential bisexuality and was booed by the fans. Tyler Posey was not asked about Stiles’s bisexuality; the interview did not start with a question about Sterek in terms of gay representation or any such thing. The interviewer simply asked for Posey’s thoughts on Sterek, and Posey gave an honest answer.
Now let’s address what Posey said:
I think Sterek is a bizarre, weird, twisted thing, and I think that anyone who pays more attention to Sterek than the show, um, isn’t watching the show for the right reasons.
may actually be bizarre, weird, and twisted, but hey, that’s okay if that’s what you want to ship. I think sometimes, as fans, we get way too caught up in our fanon ships and we get so convinced that “our precious babies love each other” that we forget about the actual canon facts surrounding the ship. And while what Posey says shouldn’t affect your shipping Sterek or how you watch the show, there are certainly a lot of problems with the Sterek pairing. When I first heard about the show, people acted like this ship was practically canon, but Stiles and Derek barely share any actual screen time together.
In the current season, Season 3B, Derek and Stiles haven’t even been in the same room together, and yet according to Tumblr, everything from Derek’s shirt color to how Stiles parted his hair was apparently about Sterek, even though in this season Derek has both called Stiles weak and insulted his intelligence. Derek and Stiles have both said they wanted to kill each other in the past. Admittedly, the two have grown up a lot and don’t seem to want to kill each other now, but they aren’t even really allies half the time. Derek also physically abuses Stiles, but it’s played off for laughs.
On top of this, the large age difference brings up the question of consent. And while I normally wouldn’t care too much about these issues in a fanon ship, the fact that fans want Sterek to be a canon ship makes them valid issues. Too many ignorant people equate pedophila/ephebophilia with homosexuality as it is; we don’t need to promote that. It’s important that if Sterek were to become canon that it would grow into a healthy and consensual relationship, not a relationship that would cause Sheriff Stilinski to arrest Derek for statutory rape. We don’t need those kinds of queer relationships to become canon. So as of right now, anyway, I’d say Sterek is pretty twisted. Basically, we need a little more pairings like Cecil/Carlos (from the excellent Welcome to Night Vale) and a little less like Lolita.
Additionally, Posey’s character Scott McCall is constantly marginalized and erased all for the sake of this non-canon, potentially unhealthy “representation”, which probably does come off as twisted to Posey. It’s important to point out the race issue in all of this. And while I can already feel you guys getting ready to type “not liking Posey or Scott doesn’t make me a racist”, the fact is the PoC lead of this show, Tyler Posey, constantly sees his character being passed over for two white dudes.
With constant calls from fans to kill off Scott and make Stiles the main character (since long before this incident), it certainly doesn’t seem like the fans care about representation for people of color like Posey. But when this is pointed out, Sterek fans tend to ignore this and other issues surrounding Posey’s race. Racism doesn’t always present itself in violence and outright bigotry, and constantly passing over Scott for the white characters is a microaggression that shouldn’t be ignored. Add to that the Sterek fandom’s long history of shutting people down when those people call them out on this type of bullshit, and you begin to have a perpetuated pattern of harmful and offensive behavior.
Posey claimed if you watched the show just for Sterek, then you are watching it for the wrong reasons. And while it doesn’t matter if you watch because you like Sterek, watching just for Sterek has certainly seemed to be the source of many of the Teen Wolf fandom’s problems in the past. Fans threatened to boycott one episode of Season 3A because Derek was hooking up with Jennifer Blake in that episode, even though an actual canon queer couple, Danny and Ethan, were going to be in that same episode. Female characters—Heather, Cora, Lydia, and Jennifer Blake, just to name a few—have been the targets of extreme sexism merely because they “got in the way” of Sterek, and I suspect Malia will experience the same issues soon.
On top of this, and probably the reason for Tyler’s comment, Tyler Posey and his character, Scott McCall, receive extreme hate all in the name of Sterek. Scott has been accused of raping Derek, being a bad friend, and being a worthless character who needs to be written off the show and replaced with Stiles. (If you need a source for all these things, you can find all of them, and sadly more, here.) Tyler Posey has been ignored, dismissed, and in some instances downright hated simply for being the lead actor in his own show.
And that’s nothing compared to what Tyler Posey is getting now. Aja Romano, a writer for The Daily Dot and a voice for fandom whom I usually respect, added fuel to the fire when she implied that Posey said all this because he was jealous of Dylan and Sterek. And of course, we have the lovely Sterek fans on Tumblr. Let’s see what they have to say:
Anonymous asked: ill fucking show you awful human beings: posey needs to be raped by hoechlin until he makes a public apology. (not the owner of that blog but i do agree with them) (source)
“I personally think that the random surge of Posey/Scott Appreciation stuff is ridiculous.”—Colethewolf (via wayltsf)
Fans have also asserted that Tyler Posey is homophobic because he stood up for himself after being constantly put down by Sterek fans. This is despite the fact that, previously, he has talked about Scott/Stiles with Dylan O’Brien, shown nothing but support for Scott/Isaac, and even joked about the fake Twitter child he apparently had with Colton Haynes. So it doesn’t seem at all like Posey hates or is even uncomfortable with slash pairings in general—his reaction was specifically about Sterek.
Fan reactions got so bad that Posey himself was receiving death threats and his mother, who is going through chemo, felt the need to say something about it.
This kind of attitude is utterly disgusting and appalling. To make matters even worse, now Sterek fans are saying that Posey isn’t getting death threats, but rather that these death threats are being “made up” by anti-Sterek people to make Sterek shippers look bad. I guess Posey’s mother is just trying to make Sterek look bad, right, guys? And before you comment on this post and say “not all Sterek fans are like this” and “please stop stereotyping us”, I want to say this—clearly enough of you are like this or things wouldn’t have gotten this bad. Even if this is just an extremely vocal minority, if Sterek fans are worrying more about defending themselves and pointing out how they “aren’t like that”, that attitude isn’t helping. If you want to prove you are a Sterek fan who “isn’t like this”, then defend Posey and keep this vocal minority in check. Don’t stand for this kind of behavior in the fandom.
And to be fair, I have seen plenty of people talk about how they are Sterek fans and have stood up for Tyler Posey and against behavior like this. And to all of you—thank you. You are good people doing the right thing.
Sadly, however, the people in charge of Teen Wolf don’t seem to fully understand how bad this issue has gotten. The official Teen Wolf Tumblr added even more fuel to the fire when they reblogged this post by colethewolf, one of Tumblr’s most well-known Sterek shippers.
This picture was included along with quotes supporting Sterek from almost every member of the cast and Jeff Davis. Tyler Posey was noticeably absent despite the fact that Posey had said nothing unsupportive of Sterek until a few days ago. Whether those in control of the Teen Wolf blog realized it or not, they had just supported a non-canonical ship over their human lead actor. By posting this, The Powers That Be seemed to be saying that Posey was in the wrong, and while it didn’t directly condone the threats he’s getting, it certainly didn’t help.
And if you think this is an isolated incident, think again. This isn’t the first time that the Teen Wolf TPTB has thrown one of their own actors under the bus. During Season 2, #killallison trended worldwide and was retweeted by the official Teen Wolf Twitter, because they were impressed with the fans’ “passion”.
Furthermore, during an interview where Tyler, Dylan, and Crystal were asked to answer questions via Twitter, the question “Why does Allison dress like a slut this season?” was selected as a good question to have Crystal answer. I think Teen Wolf’s TPTB, in their eagerness to be loved, are courting the wrong fucking fans. (Read about these issues in more depth here.)
The Teen Wolf Powers That Be and the fans all hail Teen Wolf as this progressive show for people of color, women, and especially queer people. The phrases “this show is a gift” and “Jeff Davis is a gift” have been thrown around a lot. But Teen Wolf is far from progressive if this is how those in charge, and their fans, behave. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. I’m ashamed to be a part of this fandom.
I stand with Tyler Posey.
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More power to you and this post. Some other sites like the Daily Dot and Geekiary haven’t taken the past week’s events into proper context (practically encouraging the meaningless hate from Sterek fans), seeming to care more that a SLASH SHIP isn’t universally liked than the human elements. Which is a shame. As for the official TW social crew, well, we all realized they weren’t shit a long time ago.
Bravo, I couldn’t agree more.
The same “fans” the claim not to be the ones to follow a weird, twisted and bizarre ship are the one one who are threatening murder and rape, how level headed and normal that must seem to them. And the ones who cry That’s not me, do nothing about policing their own dark corners of their ship.
Add in the stellar job done by the media office of Teen Wolf, it adds up to such a lovely picture.
The majority of Sterek fans were simply hurt by his choice of words and being told HOW to watch the show. We’re allowed to be hurt because of an insensitive word choice. We don’t hate his opinion! It is totally fair!! It was just hurtful that he used the word twisted to describe a queer ship when a lot of us queer fans have been told loving people of our own gender is twisted. It stings.
Most of us are furious as hell about the death threats against Posey. It’s a tiny handful of dumbasses we don’t support and do not condone who sent the rape and deaththreats and we’re all appalled by what’s been done in our name. There are thousands of us who ship Sterek and now we’re getting hate and death threats en masse now for something a few idiots did. Just like the anti-Stereks are all being tarred by the same brush for some of the horrible things a handful of them are saying in return (I’ve had rapethreats over this issue and been called a stupid bitch. I have not returned those epithets at all.)
Please, please do not think every Sterek fan is horrible and hateful and LESS THAN HUMAN (which is what the death threat morons are, they’re despicable.) Please remember that there are thousands of us hurting, being tarred with the same brush, and that we hate what’s been said to him as much as anyone. TPo is allowed to not like Sterek (and it’s totally beyond valid that anyone watching just for one ship is missing out on so many wonderful things!!!) and we were also allowed to feel hurt because of his insensitive word choice but ANYONE who is being hurtful over this needs to feel ashamed and apologise.
Sterek fans had no reason to get their feelings hurt; Posey was speaking his mind and probably Hoechlin’s and Dylan’s, too. Hoechlin has straight up said that the Sterek shit makes him uncomfortable and Dylan is too nice to say anything about it.
people have every right to get their feelings hurt and/or be angry if you say that they are watching and loving a show *wrong* (no, you don’t get to decide why they watch/enjoy what they enjoy). that was incredibly stupid of posey to say, he could have worded it much better.
I agree, fan have every right to watch the show for there own enjoyment, whatever it is that they want to get out of it. The thing that annoyed me about what posey said was that he acted like it was wrong for fans to pair the two together, that it’s such a “twisted” mindset, to ship them. But then you look at Stiles and Malias interactions, which I would find more unimaginable than sterek- while I understand that the show is fantasy it does not take into consideration that by all logic she should have the mentality of a 11year old, that seems far more weird and twisted than sterek would be. While everyone’s entitled to there own opinions and by no means are the death threats and so on by any means acceptable behaviour, the fact remains that Posey poorly worded his response and antagonised and offended a large portion of his fan base. By no means does this make me feel like he any less of an actor or person, just a little disappointed.
I don’t hate Tyler Posey, I don’t think enough about him to hate him. What I object to is the way he jumped in and broke his neck to put forward his poorly worded opinion when the QUESTION WASN’T EVEN FOR HIM! He mad the rest of the actors very uncomfortable.
sorry no offence but she clearly doesn’t have a mentality of a 11 year old, I thought the show made that VERY clear???
I tottaly agree with you. I think that there has been a lot of bullshit againt sterek shippers. I personally ship them, but in no way I would mean any harm to posey, in fact I think that he’s very talented. I do believe this problem was because a wrong choice of words, which are sensible to some people.
I love the show and I watch it as a whole, not because of sterek, but we must remember that there are fans that go as far as to think their ships are actually canon. Please don’t think that every sterek shipper is the same mad (girl) who would threat a person.
Dude, you literally DID NOT read the article. What part of “And before you comment on this post and say ‘not all Sterek fans are like this’ and ‘please stop stereotyping us’, I want to say this—clearly enough of you are like this or things wouldn’t have gotten this bad. Even if this is just an extremely vocal minority, if Sterek fans are worrying more about defending themselves and pointing out how they ‘aren’t like that’, that attitude isn’t helping. If you want to prove you are a Sterek fan who ‘isn’t like this’, then defend Posey and keep this vocal minority in check. Don’t stand for this kind of behavior in the fandom.” do you not understand?
Own up to the crap that your fandom is pulling and DEAL with it.
I don’t condone the threats and call out the asshats (anonymous asshats most of the time, which means I can’t actively do something against/about them) and Tyler’s opinion is just that, his opinion, so what would you want me to do?
I have no idea if he meant it maliciously or not (can’t look inside his head). I have never met him nor will I ever. He can say whatever he wants to say. Will I “defend” him beyond stating that he’s entitled to his opinion if I don’t agree with it, though? Hell no!
Did you read the entire article? Because they addressed how the “but we’re not ALL like that” defense is completely pointless.
Instead of defending yourself with words and making the debate about whether or not all Sterek fans are crazy, stand against those who are.
We can’t ‘stand against those who are’ any more than you can. You know your words fall on deaf ears to those causing the trouble, and so do we. Just because they come from our camp doesn’t mean us telling them to stop is going to make them listen. We DO tell them to stop. Most of the influential Sterek blogs with lots of followers have condemned the actions of these people. Most of them post positive Posey/Scott things, trying to encourage people to move past this and grow up, but it doesn’t help. The problematic people can get away with this kind of stuff because we can’t grab them through the internet and slap their hands away from the keyboard if they’re about to say something crappy. All we could do is call them out individually by their usernames and publicly shame them in the community, which isn’t going to promote a better environment either or make them feel sorry for their actions in the slightest.
You can’t expect us to do something you can’t do either. Don’t act like they are just our unruly children we should be able to rear. It doesn’t work that way.
At least I make an attempt to reign in the Anti-Stereks, even though I am one. I don’t subscribe to blogs that promote hatred or disrespect towards ANY of the cast, and I Unfollow anyone who posts that sort of thing. You guys should be doing a mass cleansing and Unfollowing and dropping/blocking/unfriending anyone who is posting HATE.
reading comprehension: they are. they are not like them and they are making it clear and saying that’s it’s not ok.
Their response is a pointless derailment. If your response to discussion of a human being being threatened with rape and murder is: ‘he was MEAN, and anyway *I* didn’t do it or cheer it on!’ then your response is staggeringly inappropriate.
Funny how Sterek fandom NEVER responds in force to their own fandom to say ‘that’s not okay’ – they never come out in force or insistently reblog their own fandom hategraphics and threats or loudly call their fellow shippers on that nonsense. No, it’s only when a Posey-positive or calling-out post goes up that Sterek shippers flock in to derail with completely pointless six-paragraph speeches defending themselves (and also to, in unavoidable effect, to defend their fellow shippers when they deliberately derail a conversation by refocusing it back on critique of the actor instead of any discussion of the completely disproportionate and completely inappropriate attacks made on him when he dared speak out against the highly vocal, racist, misogynistic and abuse-apologist sections of fandom by calling statutory rape ‘weird and twisted’ and saying that watching a TV show for something that doesn’t exist in a TV show is watching it the wrong way. I’ve watch TV shows for nonexistent ships before, but to attempt to paint him as mean and inappropriate requires you to ignore the context that is not erasable unless you are making a concerted effort to bury the hate language, racist vitriol, death threats and open and constant racist microaggressions heaped on him – and attempting to bury it for the sole purpose of castigating a man of colour for standing up for himself. He does not owe you jack shit, and if you were really intolerant of the hate Sterek fandom heaps on him, you would be cognizant of the fact that he doesn’t owe any proponents of that fandom the benefit of the doubt.)
You don’t get to systematically abuse a human being for being inconvenient to you whilst Latino/existing while Latino, or stay passive in the midst of the abuse of a human being in a community that overwhelmingly actively supports hatred and instutionalized oppression, and then whine about how they weren’t nice enough when they called you on it. And you especially have no place coming in to criticize when other people are sticking up for him in the face of YOUR community.
I LOVE TYLER POSEY ,I LIKE STERAK BUT I FEEL LIKE BECAUSE HE SAID SOMETHING AGAINST STERAK THE FANDOM WAY OVERREACTED. HE HAS GONE OUT OF HIS WAY TO APOLIGISE BUT YOU SHIPPERS OF STERAK SHOULD BE SORRY MY GOD JEFF DAVIS IS GAY AND HE DOESNT SUPPORT STERAK BUT ITS STILL LIKE POSEY IS HATED YOU SHOULD BE THANKFULL AFTER EVERYTHING HE STILL CARES ENOUGH TO PLAY TEENWOLF THERE WOULDNT BE TEENWOLF WITHOUT HIM
i suppose he said this ship was twisted not because sterek is a queer ship, but because Tyler personally doesn’t see any possibility of it happening in canon (and, frankly speaking, you can ship whoever you want, but you have to admit that this couple is hard to believe in, and I’m not sure Tyler has the time or wish to try)
This is completely filled with hate and only adding more hate to an already tense situation. So bravo on trying to make things worse.
Most sterek shippers out there were blind-sided by Tyler’s comment and really hurt in the process. The majority of us are disgusted by any hate going his way and aren’t the ones perpetuating it. So don’t tar us all with the same brush.
We should be focussing on getting past this not flinging hate at everyone.
You’re confusing hate with opinions you don’t agree with backed up by multiple pieces of evidence. Why do Sterek shippers get to dominate the entire fandom and then when SOME OF THEM (we KNOW it’s not all of you) do something bad and get called out on it the people who call them out are somehow making things worse. Some of you have been making things worse for years and this is the first time you’ve had to deal with it. (Multiple examples are included in the article which I’m assuming you didn’t read because it also literally said this doesn’t apply to all Sterek shippers, which you ignored and claimed it’s “tarring you all with the same brush”). As the article states, be more concerned with the shippers making you look bad than with things like this that accurately point out flaws. Also, you don’t get past things by ignoring them they need to be addressed and if they aren’t they’ll only get worse. I’d rather make sure the real life actor, who did nothing wrong, is still comfortable interacting with fans and going to cons, and doing his job, than make sure delusional Sterek shippers never have to realize their 100% non-cannon ship is going to stay not cannon.
I don’t watch Teen Wolf for the plot or CGI, or for their treatment of women and minorities. I watch it because the show has so much potential. The cast is wonderful, and there are so many interesting plot sparks in the show that, if explored, could make the show great. Let’s develop Danny. Let’s look at Scott’s relationship with each of his parents, how he’s gone from a goofy, oblivious (not dumb) kid, to an alpha with so much responsibility. Let’s look at Peter’s abuse of Lydia, and how it impacts her. Let’s talk about the kids being friends with people that not only tried to kill them, but killed one of their friends. Let’s talk about Derek’s past abusive relationships. Let’s find out what the mythology of the show is. The cast has proven themselves capable of working with what they’ve been given, let them fulfill the show’s potential.
But let’s be real, the plot & character development of the show is more holey than cheese cloth. That’s where fandom steps in: to fill in the holes.
While I dislike and am a little hurt by Posey’s comments, I am obviously also against any hate towards him for his honest opinion. My boredom of Scott has more to do with the way the character is written, and I adore Posey for that. I love Scott as portrayed by Posey. Which made his comments a bit more hurtful for me.
I’ve been in a variety of fandoms over the last 15 years. My family and friends that knew back when I was in high school made such hurtful comments about it to me. Fandom was a safe place for me. It hurt when JK Rowling called fans of H/Hr delusional. I can brush off hate from other fans, but when people involved with the creation of a show I love call something I enjoy “twisted,” that hurts.
I’m genuinely sorry he’s being threatened and sent hate. I think he did have a knee jerk reaction after the hurt that must come with constantly being put second to something that isn’t real. I think fans sending hate are also having knee jerk reactions. I want to believe the best of both sides. Just… Don’t send hate to anyone, and let me feel hurt in my own corner of fandom.
Yet another article pointing out the problem we’re all already aware of and proposing no solution. Please explain how the ‘good’ Sterek shippers are supposed to police the despicable people saying this toxic stuff. We can’t. The ship is too huge, the internet is too anonymous and there is no way people like them would listen to reason anyway. How then are we to solve this problem? Just have the Sterek ship be disbanded because it causes some problems? Everyone just stop posting Sterek and show false love for a character they don’t relate with/don’t care as much about just to make things ‘equal?’ Sterek isn’t just going to stop. We’re going to have to figure out a way to all get along or the author is right, the fandom will devour itself and continually turn people off of the show. I’m sure if you’ve got a solution 98% of the Sterek fandom is listening and will take the appropriate action so none of the actors ever have to experience this kind of disgusting behavior from a few awful people.
Exactly! We can speak out against the death threats, say we respectfully disagree with Posey, and not send hate our selves. What more can we actually do?
I can’t make people that don’t like or aren’t interested in Posey post positive things with him in them. Calling out people that send death threats (who are possibly trolls) usually only fuels the fire. I can reblog things with Posey that I like. I can say that speaking negatively of anyone, both on the part of fans and the part of Posey, is wrong.
We can only control our own actions. No one has the right to dictate how other people should feel. If they’re hurt, they have a right to voice it and to tell Posey that in a mature way. Hate and death threats aren’t that, and all that we can do is encourage people to express themselves in a constructive manner.
I will tell you exactly what you can do:
A) send posts to the ones spreading the hate. Not just to the ones spreading death threats, but to the ones who post hateful snotty shit against Posey/Scott. Unsubscribe to their blogs. Tel them why your leaving. Unfollow hateful URLs. Unfriend and Block those spreading hate. Thats why things are growing lovely in my neck of the woods. I add the Posey fans who are nice and a drop anyone who starts pushing hate. You can do exactly the same and drop the people who cause constant friction in the fandom, and you know who they are.
I never see Posey hate on my dash (beyond the hurt over what he said), and I am not going to seek it out to fuel the flames. I see more people defending his comments, and insulting those that are hurt, which bothers me, but again, that’s their opinion, I’m not presumptuous enough to tell people what to think or feel.
I thought this was going to be insightful. So disappointed. I do agree on a few points, like fandom’s absurd obsession with everything being about Sterek. But comparing a (potential) relationship between a seventeen-year-old and a twenty-something(?) to Lolita? Bringing up Posey’s PoC status as if that has anything to do with this? I hope some of those thousand plus notes are people calling you out.
In 3A Stiles is still 16, Derek is at least 24 or older depending which source you use, so that relationship is a bit OFF in terms of age and balance of power. And constantly pushing two white guys over not just Posey but Danny as well is definitely racist, whether you like hearing it or not.
So… We have to like Posey’s character more than Stiles and Derek or we’re racist?
No but when fans (even if they’re not you) call for the death of a character from a minority or a shift of focus from that character to two white male characters it becomes problematic. Especially if they’re not called out. I love Sterek but they are issues with people who feel it is okay to kill off the representation of a group of people who do not see as much representation in the media. Things like that don’t exist in a vaccum and they discourage the spread of representation in the media
Since it’s been hinted that Malia is Peter’s daughter and back in 3A it was revealed in Visionary that Peter and Derek are close in age (they were teenagers together and best friends), and Malia is 16/17. Then Derek might be in his 30s at least
Derek was 15 in Visionary, and Peter was out of high school already. Derek joked that he would tell on him hanging around the school at the table outside remember? My best guess, from the things we know is that Derek is between 22 and 25. The fire happened after he Visionary when he was 15, but while he was still in school (they mentioned that’s why he wasn’t at the house) so he had to be between 16-19 six, nearly seven, years ago. There’s no way he could be 30 even if you want to figure ‘school’ was college (which we don’t know of there being in beacon hills)
Clearly Miss you don’t understand what pedophilia means…
As regulated by tha APA (American Psychiatric Association) the DSM IV states that the diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia is “Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children.”
If you can’t even get that argument right, you can’t expect us to take your other arguments seriously .
That is all
Your attempt to derail is flawed on every level. Sterek is a pairing between a sixteen year old boy and the adult man who attacks him, verbally abuses him, threatens to murder him for defiance and has no qualms about abusing his physical power. They also mentioned ephebophilia and statutory rape. There’s no way for you to contradict those, so I see you’ve pretended they don’t exist so you can attempt to get on your high horse and continue to shout for an abusive relationship to be put on TV so queer relationships can be further demonized and characterized as dysfunctional and hateful. But what does representation matter if you’re getting your rocks off, right?
Stiles is 17. He is not defenseless or weak, and he has always been quick to call Derek out on his crap, even though in the first season there was obvious fear (I mean cmon. He’s a freaking werewolf). They are equals, and especially with the season 3 story line. Stiles has matured so much over this past season that you’d be blind to say he’s too immature for Derek.
I don’t think they are saying that he us too immature. But they really don’t have much screen time together as is and Derek has physically threatened Stiles before, If the show runners waited until Stiles was above the legal age for any sex scenes (because those laws are there for a reason) and/or (but this next part should definitely take place) showed interaction between them that showed a good healthy (as possible) progression of the relationship then it would be great. But in canon (not necessarily fanon) I can see why there might be issues.
THIS IS THE MOST DISGUSTING THING I’VE EVER READ ABOUT AN ACTOR SAYING HIS OPINION IN A SHIP THAT IT’S NOT EVEN CANON EWWWWW
I love how there is one rape threat and one death threat and suddenly posey is receiving threat(s). Fandom doesn’t take responsibility for one moron who takes things to the extreme.
I love how you’re attempting to derail by a) pretending that the threats are isolated behaviour when if you’d bothered to read the links in the post you were so eager to respond to you would see the extensive documentation of the ship’s fandom’s ugly, racist, hateful and openly threatening behaviour and b) creating a Straw Man argument where vitriolic fans would be openly making these statements (and openly making these statements saying ‘i agree with other fans’) if there wasn’t an already existing community of support.
Honestly, no evidence was needed for this. Death threats, rape threats, or threats of any kind are NOT OKAY. No exceptions. I personally think Tyler’s comments were annoying because TV shows belong to their viewers, like in any art form, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. Threats are NEVER OKAY. Ever. Why is this so hard to understand?
I started watching this show during the third season. Even before that, I was a shipper of Sterek. I saw the gif sets on Tumblr and fell in love with the idea of Stiles and Derek as a couple. I have read pretty much nothing but Sterek fan-fiction. I have my versions of their relationship that I like: Stiles being the aggressor, bullied Stiles, artist Derek, chef Derek, the Sheriff finding out…I mean seriously, my list is pretty extensive and my Ao3 bookmark list is getting pretty long. That being said, I realize that Sterek is not canon.
I for one am not going to sit here and bitch about what Tyler Posey said. It’s his opinion and he’s entitled to to it. To all of you douche bags who insist on sending the hate: shut the hell up. The show is called Teen Wolf, not the Stiles and Derek Hour. Be thankful that they are still on the show and you get to see your eye candy without shirts (Derek) or just existing for the sake of my cougar fantasies (Stiles). I’m kind of sick of how this fandom thinks they are better than what they are. You threaten boycotts when you can’t have your way, or death/rape threats when someone isn’t drinking the Sterek koolaid. Sterek is not canon! Be happy the Jeff Davis isn’t suing all our asses for infringement of his copy-written material.
When things like this happen in the fandom I avoid tumblr for a few days until it blows over but after reading this I can no longer stick my head in the sand. It’s not going to make the problem go away. It’s time for me (and Sterek shippers like me) to put our money where our mouth is. I always find myself saying things like, “not all of us are like that.” But I don’t do anything about it. I personally don’t believe that shaming and threatening people in retaliation is the answer either as I’ve seen over private pics being posted for example. If Sterek fandom says that people who post negative and hurtful things are a minority, then why are they so popular, why do these blogs have so many followers? Failure to act is encouraging the behavior. I can’t do anything about what other people choose to post but I can chose who to follow and reblog. I’ve committed to be more vigilant in who I follow and reblog. This is the currency of the internet/tumblr that I control and if the silent majority of Sterek fandom did the same maybe our voice could drown theirs out. Let’s deprive them of what they feed on: ATTENTION.
Now as for how TPTB’s handling of the situation, I think the drawback of the fandom inclusiveness of the show is the that they are now faced with the dark side of fandom which includes the hate and nasty ship wars. Like Stiles, they opened a door and now are dealing with the consequence of what they let in. Five years ago all of this would have been hashed out on message boards with the canon family (TPTB and the cast) blissfully unaware. The Official Teen Wolf twitter and tumblr need to stop encouraging this bad behavior. To use the example above, if I post a hateful tweet or tumblr post that get reblogged by the official account I am now emboldened to continue. For lack of a better example, it’s as if your at home and your child says the f-word and you laugh, the next time you’re at your in-laws, they are gonna yell it at the top of their lungs and sing the f-word to the tune of twinkle twinkle little star. All because you encouraged it.
I know a lot of people who have gotten married with any where from 5 to 11 years, sometimes even more between them and they are not weird, twisted or bizarre. They are just people who have fallen in love and in many instances their love has lasted far more longer than people the same age. Stiles is 17, almost 18, I know a couple that met when she was 18 and he was 26, they lasted until he died in his 80’s. That’s true love. It wasn’t all lovey dovey either. They had their share of fights, every couple does. Don’t think it’s disgusting because of the age gap. The only two people who know if they really love each other is the two people involved, it doesn’t matter what they prefer as far as age(as long as it’s not too young and 17 is practically adult), gender, race, backgrounds, none of that matters. What matters is if those two people have that certain feeling for each other and no one should stand in the way of that(unless it is truly abusive and one of them is in danger from the other which sorry I have been watching and no it is not)
It is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I believe Tyler Posey said what he said out of jealousy. I know that a lot of people love Tyler Posey and he seems(to me) like a fun loving, dorky, ball of cuteness, but even the best of us get jealous sometimes. It is a normal human reaction.
Scott may be the main character of the show but it takes a lot more than one character to make a show great. Give the others some credit for without them the show wouldn’t be the same.
Even Jeff Dunham has to use different personalities to make his show popular.
You watch a show for a reason, it is your own personal reason for enjoying it, no one should tell you why you should watch something. No one can tell you what you can and can not watch. Unless it is illegal in your country to watch something and then you probably shouldn’t watch it.
First, Stiles was canonly stated in 3A to still be 16, (he admits to Heather that he has not turned 17 yet) and only a few weeks of show time have passed since then, with no mentions of a birthday. Therefore, Stiles is 16.
Secondly, I’m gonna go out on a limb and bet that in the couple you refer to that the older one never slammed the younger ones face into a steering wheel nor did the younger one constantly try to talk others into leaving the older one for dead. I bet no one wrote fics and art about them fisting, or dub-con or sex or any of the other things considered weird or twisted or bizarre by people that often are included in Sterek fics. Not saying that you cant have your jam in fics, but you can’t tell other people what they should and should not find weird.
Thirdly, and mosty, I bet no one asked this couples best friends about THEIR relationship 24/7 all of the time, rather than ask about anything else pertinent to their own actual lives. “Hi Joe, how about the fact that Mary and Dave are together, huh? Lets talk about that, ok? No, don’t want to know anything else, just tell me about these other two people you know. Thats al I want to know about. Forever.”
The fact that people constantly ask POSEY how he feels about a MADE UP ship that doesnt exist on his show EVERY TIME he steps outside is not just WEIRD its fucking GROSS.
Christ it is not HIS show. He may be the titular character but it is most definitely an ensemble piece and wouldn’t work without the rest them. In the same way Buffy was not the be all of her ‘own show’. She was never my favourite and neither is Scott. And Yes being asked about Sterek (as he has been asked about Scisaac also not a canon ship) IS part of his job because it helps promote the show whether you or he like it. In the same way every other cast member has been asked about the variety of ships canon or non-canon on the show.
Just because you don’t think it’s “bizarre” because of an age gap, doesn’t mean others don’t. Your opinion is not everyone else’s. Stiles is a junior in high school (16!), while Derek is someone who’s already graduated college by now (24-25!) and even stalks said high school often. Does that not sound weird to you? Would you want some older man hanging around a high school and then actually hooking up with one of the students? A student he has been violent with in the past? Feel free to think that’s not twisted, but don’t force that opinion on anyone else.
So, what’s your opinion on Aiden/Lydia, Danny/Ethan (the twins aren’t actually high school students either anymore and helped kill Erica & Boyd, attacked Braeden, etc.) or Isaac/Scott (Scott threw Isaac into a wall twice, but I guess that’s okay because he’s a werewolf and violating the bro code).
Furthermore, just because it’s underage in your country/state doesn’t mean it’s in everyone’s.
The show takes place in California in the US. Therefore those laws on consent apply. And quite frankly, all those ships you mentioned, perhaps to prove a point, are gross for those exact reasons (including Isaac/Scott). The show may have forgotten what those characters have done, but I, and many others, haven’t.
Aiden/Lydia and Ethan/Danny I actually don’t approve of because of Boyd and Erica’s deaths, not really because of age difference. Do we know how old they are? They’re still able to register for high school, so I think they’re maybe 18-20. They’re still older, which makes the relationship sketchy, but that just makes Stiles’s and Derek’s “relationship” even more sketchy.
As for Scott/Isaac, people always read the wall thing wrong. When Isaac told Scott about Allison and Scott threw him out of his bedroom, they were roughhousing like teenage boys do. Melissa McCall was even standing there and shaking her head like “boys will be boys”. Do you really think that Melissa, a nurse and a mother, would approve of that if it was anything but roughhousing? It’s not meant to be abusive, unlike when Derek throws a glass at Isaac, which is definitely reminiscent of his father’s abuse.
Also, “just because it’s X in your country doesn’t mean it’s X in others, so it’s not actually illegal” is a terrible argument. Child marriage is allowed in India, but not in the U.S. Does that mean we should approve of it? Should we also approve of statutory rape?
Here’s the truth: I like Sterek. But even I can see that any “relationship” now would definitely be twisted to the eyes of people who aren’t shippers, like Posey. It would be much better if they were older; 20 and 27 aren’t bad. Shippers have AUs, fics, etc. where they can change ages all they want. But normal people aren’t going to be thinking about AUs or fantasies, they’ll be thinking about Sterek in the show with the ages the characters have now. A relationship between a high schooler and a college graduate. Of course that would seem bizarre.
Ah, so then I’m guessing you probably wouldn’t approve of Marrish? (Lydia and Parrish) Lydia is, what, 17? Despite that this is most likely going to become canon, somehow the age gap between two males seems “bizarre”. It’s incredible how a gay showrunner can have innate homophobia in his own show.
Anti-Sterek stans have such contradictory arguments. Abuse, age, blah blah. As if Malia isn’t non-consensually scratching Stiles during sex and ACTUALLY did punch him in the face. I don’t recall Derek doing that.
Lydia is actaully 18, while Parrish is only 5/4 years older than her, and also both are consenting towards it and both are interested. If your talking about the actual cannon here the scene where Stiles showed Scott those scraches? He was clearly proud of them or its like a guy saying “Hey look I had sex, cool right?” And sorry but Stiles didn’t sound irritated at all. And no it wasn’t non-consensually because they cleary both wanted to have sex and Stiles would sound irritated, not “Look, cool!” While Derek and Stiles have not consented, both have wanted each other to die at some point and both have not shown ANY interest in each other whatsoever.
I’m so disgusted by people in this fandom. I became involved in the fun that’s TW to get away from all the bullshit in my life. I wish I could apologise to the cast of this show for all the shitty
Firstly, the question wasn’t directed at Posey, it was a question directed to Hoechlin (since his character makes one half of the Sterek ship). This was a follow up to a question about Scott/Kira that was actually addressed to Posey. Who is an actor, getting paid to attend interviews and panels and deal with questions professionally.
Additionally TW, unlike a lot of shows and movies actually encourages discussion about the Sterek ship. We don’t see this happening anywhere as much with other fandoms with huge slash ships (Sherlock, SPN etc.) This is because TW also uses the Sterek fanbase to generate interest in the form of web traffic as well as solicit votes for things like the Teen Choice Awards. The coverage on Sterek in media and panels is self perpetuated by TW PR. There have also been incredibly offensive PR tactics – involving one dead Danny as well as issues in the TW storyline (dead female villains everywhere for instance) The thing is, TW encourages the idea of Sterek, they don’t shut it down. In fact their PR tactics try to exploit the ship in ways that are distasteful at best.
There are a number of problematic ships, both canon and fanon. In the last episode Peter addressed Lydia as ‘sweetheart’ and *there’s* one hell of an age gap. We he other fandoms such as Queer as Folk where the main canon pairing included an underage male. People and SHOWS/MOVIES ship what they want to ship. Can it be problematic? Hell, yes.
And Rule 34: is it exists there is R rated material out there of it. Whether a ship becomes canon or not, people will still ship it. People shipped Hagrid/the Giant Squid as a crack ship for instance. Comparitively Dylan and Hoechlin are somewhat more attractie and have a teensy bit more chemistry.
Your issues with everything in 3B being about Sterek on tumblr is standard shipper fare – have you never been in a different fandom or viewed source material through a shipper’s eyes? Whether its Allison/Lydia or Chris/Derek, there’s fodder out there for the masses for transformative works and to view with their fandom goggles.
Sterek fans wanting the ship to become canon doesn’t mean the two characters have to jump into the sack in the very next episode. It might mean something of a bromance until Stiles is at least legal. Seriously, bromances are a dime a dozen and its one of the ways a canon slash ship could happen organically without the underage element. I’d personally love to see Danny actually get to develop a relationship with another guy rather than constantly getting sidelined.
3B has been all about Dylan O’Brien. Jeff frickin Davis is all about Dylan O’Brien. While fandom is definitely problematic when it comes to Scott, it doesn’t help that the show is increasingly sidelining their lead actor for the ensemble cast.
You can’t force people to love a character or ship them with another. You CAN help fans to appreciate the actor’s efforts even if the character’s development in the source material is lackluster. But while you can show support for an actor, that doesn’t necessarily mean the show will give them more time (despite them being leads) or give them a better character arc. At this point I admit I usually pay more attention to Allison, Sheriff and Kira than Scott.
Heather, Cora, Jennifer, Laura, Kali, Erica – all women, all MIA. This speaks more about TW’s problematic scripts than the fandom. Fandoms are insane. I recall the Harmonians in HP. You have fervent shippers who get very impassioned about what they love. I don’t tend to track tags in TW fandom but I’ve noticed a lot of BNFs in the Sterek ship have repeatedly slammed the more problematic fandom trends.
There is a lot of meta in TW – and shippers write it with a focus on characters they love. So you end up with Scott’s more controversial actions getting judged and found wanting. However, there is also meta about the rampant sexism, erasure of identity and treatment of PoCs as well.
Posey probably isn’t reading any of the meta but he gets a lot of tweets. And yes tweets from antis too. Are certain sterek shippers to blame? Yes. But can you blame a ship for all the hate an actor receives? There are probably hate messages from non-sterek fans too. The most fandom can do as a whole is silence them by pointing out the problematic issues with their statemtns, and in the case of trolls, ignoring them. When you have a huge ship in any fandom, you get the racists, the sexists, the bigots, the prejudiced. The most we can do is unfollow these people on tumblr and spread the word. We are not TPTB.
Speaking of which, the TW PR goes out of its way to pick out offensive material (a tweet about Allison looking like a slut, the trope of ‘knotting’ etc.). The question here is WHY are they constantly tried to discomfit the actors and put them in these situations? Why not pick stuff that’s might lead to better threads of conversation. The interviews rehash the same stuff over and over again and when they’re not doing that, they’re just trying to make the cast look incredibly awkward.
What I find interesting is that you don’t seem to have done your research on tumblr at all on the response to this whole incident. Over the past week, while there were hurt feelings about Posey’s words, the Sterek fandom came out by trying to show Posey they do care. BNFs wrote out posts slamming the negative actions you outlined above and shippers felt outraged on Posey’s behalf.
However, I find this left me feeling bitter. Posey’s words were not just unprofessional but while he might not have meant anything homophobic, it certainly can come across that way. And there is no such thing as a true fan – people watch shows for what they want. Actors didn’t tell viewers who watched Baywatch that they weren’t supposed to be paying more attention to women’s bathing suits than the actual show. It cut into your show’s demographics.
I’m betting the TW tumblr made that post with the idea that Posey’s controversial comment would result in fandom backlash, which is reasonable and negative media coverage (possibly homophobic comment ftw) Would it have been better to try to get Posey to tweet something instead to resolve the issue? Yes. But they did end up posting a Posey post a few days later when they noticed which way the tides were turning (finally)
In reponse to the whole slut comment an killallison craziness, Fandom presented Crystal reed with a fan created book filled with support and fanart and letters. Crystal teared up during her Days of the Wolf panel since she was so moved by it. KillAllison wasn’t about Sterek though. And the slut tweet was picked out by TW PR so you’re muddying the waters here by bringing up all the OTHER issues with TW.
Davis loves to point out the TW verse is free of ‘isms’ but the story arc is incredibly problematics in terms of the erasure of women and POC and LGBTQ representation. While Sterek is a big ship in the fandom, it can’t be held responsible for problems in source material. Yes, perhaps Posey feels increasingly sidelined since every question about Sterek directed at Dylan and Hoechlin is one less question about Scott and other characters but that’s an issue to take up with PR which encourages the Sterek line of conversation in media.
Also, while 3B may not actually be about Sterek, it *is* all about Dylan and Posey can’t really voice disatisfaction about how as a lead POC character Scott’s getting sidelined by the BFF who happens to be white and Davis is heralding as the next big thing. So I wonder how much of it is also frustration over the current state of affairs.
I do feel his comment was very professional especially in light of Crystal Reed (who has had to deal with way more stuff and been really a pro through it all) and Keahu who doesn’t even feel like a part of the main cast. Posey has first billing and gets compensated. But this is intersectionality at its finest where a POC Lead and his Female Love interest and the canon LGBTQ character rep all get the short end of the stick in many, many way, both on the show and in social media.
There is a project to show support to Tyler Posey so do google it and try to get involved.
I think this guy proves a really good point. Because its not just 1 thing that has been bugging TW, there is a lot more shit going around than just the Sterek part.
Some of your points are good however I am seriously not in it for Dylan is white thats why his getting more attention thing. The simple reason that he was getting more attention from others, even before the movies was because his character’s personality was more interesting, and before season 3b, Stiles was the comic relief, while Scott got more action and serious scenes, yet despite this Dylan shined even more in the serious side of acting. He just seems to be able to do dramatic acting better than Tyler and I honestly do believe he is a better actor. That is why Dylan has been getting more attention, his character’s personality and his acting, not because his white. And you also compare them in serious scenes, while both have had scenes where they break down, Tyler said Scott basically has a nervous break down in season 5a, yet I did not see it? Maybe it was the asthma attack, or the one where his mother talks him out of blaming himself, yet when Stiles broke down I could see it very clearly. I just can’t see the emotion Tyler should be putting in his acting to connect well with his character, yet I can see Stiles emotion very well. Maybe this is the scrip and the directing and they are sidelining Scott but it could easily be that Dylan is a better actor than Tyler and you can connect with his character more, especially in the emotional scenes. But please, no one likes Stiles more “because his white” It also feels like when people say that their making out being white is a bad thing. I’ve seen it used in a insulting way in tumblr. It doesn’t and shouldn’t matter what race they are and the fact people are blaming race has anything to do with that, I just find really wrong and very unfair to Dylan AND Tyler.
Reblogged this on Paget's Coup de Plume and commented:
I think a few of the sane fans are bowing out of any Teen Wolf Tumblr/Twitter action to do with it right now. I’m doing the same.
Maybe people will have grown up by the time that we decide to return.
No matter what ship it is or what show it is, there will always be people that take it too far. And by taking it too far, I mean confusing the actors with the characters and sending these threats to the actors themselves (Supernatural, Harry Potter, Sherlock).
‘keep the vocal minority in check’ – apart from calling people out and unfollowing people that do keep on this type of behaviour, shippers cannot do anything else. They cannot go to these people’s houses and take away their Tumblr and Twitter accounts and stop them posting these horrific things.
I never quite understand why people do these sorts of things, but a reaction seems to be the goal. And not just their ‘side’ supporting them but the other side speaking up against them.
I follow several Teen Wolf fans, quite a lot of them Sterek shippers on Tumblr and the main reaction to this whole affair has been hurt at what Tyler Posey said (he may have been talking about the age difference or the unhealthy nature of the relationship but when you call the most popular gay ship on a show ‘weird and twisted’ without any explanation, words that have been used against non-straight relationships, it can be very hurtful, regardless of his intention) but also absolutely no hate towards him as a person. They didn’t even say he was a bad guy, just that he said something and it was hurtful. And quite a lot of them like Scott, the character as well.
What I did see was when they answered several anon messages that was sending death threats to them as a Sterek shipper, even though they had posted nothing hateful at all.
Teen Wolf’s social media are going from bad to worse. Making fun of the fandom is one thing (no matter how unwise it is) but they’re treating their actors like this and highlighting all the negative stuff and it is horrible. I hope people are calling them out.
Really great article. As a queer person who, admittedly, doesn’t watch Teen Wolf but does occasionally indulge in Sterek gifsets when they appear on my dashboard, my instant reaction to Posey’s comments was anger. Queer people are always told we’re “bizarre” or “weird”. I wish he hadn’t chosen those words, especially since queer ships are really important to a lot of queer people. Even without the question being framed from the perspective of queer representation I’m still not happy with the way he chose to answer – there’s a context to queer ships and Posey doesn’t acknowledge that let alone elaborate AT ALL. Maybe he wasn’t homophobic (his prior behaviour would indicate that if he was it was unintentional), but it was a bit ignorant to choose those particular words to describe a queer fandom with literally no explanation as to why.
The rest of the hate he’s gotten, though, both before and after, seems really intense and totally inappropriate. Death threats? Rape threats? Messed up and wrong – always wrong. The behaviour by some of these people is totally heinous. Reminds me of some of the crazy stuff people said/did (and still say/do) around the Twilight Series.
Glad someone brought up the PoC lead getting written out of the story in favour of a white dude thing – it’s been massively bugging me for a while. It took me ages to find out Scott was even the lead because Tumblr is so whitewashed with Sterek. And the misogyny to pretty much any female character on the show – what the hell?! I have obviously been following nicer people than these because I hadn’t realised the scale of this problem before now (although that might be because I mostly follow feminist blogs, so misogyny is kinda moot on my dashboard). How are we ever actually supposed to achieve progressive representations on television if this is what the fans do, and the creators listen to them? Like, why are Jeff Davis et al allowing themselves to bow down so much to the Sterek Fandom? There are plenty of shows that remain super popular without compromising themselves for their version of Twihards.
Fantastic article. Concise, well-written, mercilessly targets problematic behavior. Thank you, darlin. *hugs*
This article, like most of the people in the fandom, tries way too hard to support Posey without realizing just how unprofessional his words were. The fact that we are watching a show where we have a guy who pretended to be his teen self to kiss a teenage girl, as well as a girl who nearly killed a guy dating said guy, YET people feel they can look down on other pairings is absolutely idiotic.
People watch Teen Wolf because they love the show. Sterek shippers watching for just Sterek would have nearly no show to watch, so why then, do they watch? BECAUSE THEY LOVE TEEN WOLF.
I do feel like your comments on Scott being marginalized were accurate and I think that is why Posey lashed out this time. It would be frustrating to be the star of a show yet have two other characters be the ones everyone is always asking about. I understand that. However, purposely insulting people who support your work? Not acceptable. If he had said that about any other “ship” people would be offended. It’s embarrassing how quickly people flock to join in a crowd whether it be for or against Posey. Just my thoughts.
Well i am a proud Sterek stan, i’m not twisted and i watch the show for my owns reasons but in any case i will send dead treats to Tyler, i like the guy and i love Scott, he’s my puppy.
So don’t put all the fans in the same boat and drown them please, be objective.
You took your side and it’s not professionnal.
I so agree with this that it looks like its me who wrote each line of this article.
Just wondering…so Sterek is sick and wrong because Stiles is 17, and Derek is 20 something. Do you have the same feelings for Dethen, and Aiden/Lydia? Ethan and Aiden are 20 something, Danny and Lydia are 16-17. Are you starting a campaign to get those canon ships removed from the show for being sick and wrong for having a teenager date an older guy???
Usually when a post I write gets a lot of comments I don’t like to respond. I prefer to let commenters engage with one another, but since this is a question being asked a lot I felt I should respond and explain.
First off, this is not an anti-Sterek, no matter what anyone might think of it. I actually ship and enjoy Sterek very much. When writing this post the intention was never to get Sterek to go away, I am merely pointing out some problematic issues with regards the ship and Posey’s treatment. That doesn’t mean you or anyone else can’t ship it.
As for the ages, if you read two articles I linked to in this post, I wrote two articles discussing how it would actually be a good thing if Sterek became canon because then we would have two queer characters in the main supporting cast. And that would be awesome!
However, because of the issues with Stiles being underage I do believe a canon relationship should not happen until Stiles is 18, because that is extremely problematic. And yes, I do see the exact same problems with Dethan and Aidan/Lydia. I will confess a slight bias toward Dethan, mostly because of my desire for a canon queer character of color (Danny) to become more prominent. That being said I would prefer Danny become a main character and not be dating Ethan, because their relationship (like Lydia/Aidan) is extremely problematic for quite honestly more than just their age.
Thank you for your comment.
Um no offence but it seriously wouldn’t be a good think if Sterek happened. Not only I think its quite clear Stiles and Derek are straight, they both have shown no romantic interest in each other, while Derek has physically and verbally abused Stiles, while Stiles in season 1 and 2 on many occasions has wished Derek was dead, this also includes blaming Derek for the sacrifices in season 3. I’m sorry but they may be civil now but those two are not on good terms. Fantasise about these types of ships all you want but I am agaist a show forcing two people to be together just for the fans sake (Cough) Karoline (Cough) and when one or both have shown no interest in that relationship before hand (Cough) Stydia (Cough)
Have Ethan and Aiden’s ages been verified? Are they actually in their 20’s? They’re attending high school, so that makes me think they’re younger than that, like around 18-19, which is maybe a 2-3 year difference. Also, Stiles is canonically 16 if you rewatch 3A. And Derek has shown a history of violence towards him. Would you want some older guy who’s already graduated college and has been suspiciously hanging around a high school often to go out with one of the students? Is that not bizarre to you?
I also don’t quite approve of Dethan or Aiden/Lydia because of what they did to Boyd, so yes those ships are also weird.
Sterek fans – self proclaimed alphas of the fandom, but only when it comes to their ship. Fans who have seen what is going on, wash their hands clean of it since they aren’t the ones actively hating posey, and proceed to make plans to get sterek trending again tonight. For having such a loud voice, they know just one tune, and that is beyond disappointing.
I loved this article! It’s right That I started watching the series because of Stiles, or better said, because of the gifsets that just wouldn’t stop appearing in my dashboard, and I was in vacation and bored out of my mind so I decided to give it a chance. It didn’t disappoint me, actually it blow my mind.
I don’t read much in the fandom because it is mostly toxic, and sometimes some articles have made me so mad that my mum has actually asked me what happens, or I have to call a friend and vet for a good 20 mins.
When I saw that interview with Crystal (when someone decided to be an asshole and ask her that question) I was so outraged, How can you be that kind of person? How can you ask someone that kind of question? And the constant hate towards Allison an Crystal? I mean one of the scenes I remember the most are when Allison is in the hospital after finding out Victoria is dead. That scene,it’s the most convincing reaction to a character death I ever seen, her acting is so spectacular that it gives me chills every time I see it. And her character development, god, You know Daenerys, Allison it’s kind of like that, she has to survive being thrown in a horrid world after everything falls apart, she puts herself together in such a short amount of time. Yes, we all hated Victoria, but the Victoria we know it’s no the Victoria who was Allison’s mother. And like Daenerys she rises from the ashes of her life, and we see this great character refusing to give up, changing a legacy that’s been the same for almost a millennia. She refuses to be a Killer, refuses to be scared.
And before everyone said no, Dani it’s so much better, what really makes them so different? If it was any other tv show, you’ll all be loving Allison so much.
All this hate against Tyler Posey, it’s shameful. A lot of things done in the name of this fandom are shameful. yes, I ship Sterek, but you all know which is the real love story in this show? It’s Stiles and Scott’s story. It’s the story of how that scene in the hospital just before the MRI scan, when Scott and Stiles hug, broke your heat and made you cry. Because I cried so much and I’m sure you did as well. It’s the story of how Stiles is the only one who could stop Scott from killing himself in hotel California.
It’s the story of how, they have been friends for so long that Scott goes in the middle of the night to the forest with Stiles to search for a death body. Of how they protect each other, of how the are actual brothers.
And yes, maybe there are “slips” in the show (but maybe some of those slips are actually part of the plot and we don’t know yet), but come on, when there are a lot of series where a lot of disrespect happens, we have this show, where the kids care and love their parents so much that they literally die to save them. Which other series has done that? In which other series you can see so much love in screen?
Those are the love stories we should focus on.
I was so mad when the fandom went crazy over Erica’s death. She didn’t had a lot of screen time, and in all honesty, she was a bully. She hits Stiles really hard, she comes at Scott, and the boys in a way that if she had been a guy you all will had been shouting all kinds of things about patriarchy and how tv portrays sexual harassment to be okay. I see a lot of double standards here.
And all the hate towards Jeff Davis, are you crazy? Does Martin gets treats and hate for killing Rob or Ned, or other beloved character? we trust in him to give us the best story that he can, and we love it for the humanity and reality it carries. Teen Wolf it’s an amazing show, it’s so complex it’s almost impossible to explain to an outsider, it takes stereotypes and breaks them in incredible ways. I see a lot of people criticizing that some scenes or things are put in the show because this or that actor requested it, are you crazy? Do you know how awesome it is that they takes this things an actually put them in the show?
Every week Teen Wolf breaks my heart with it’s amazing story telling. I don’t know where all this hate comes from, but it has to stop. Or do you want the show to be cancelled because you harassed someone so much that the cast couldn’t deal with it any more? Because One day something it’s going to be too much. A lot of people has taken the attention that was so kindly given to us and converted it in this. Its shameful.
Oh and other thing, that stuff you hate so much about how it’s never made a thing that Scott is Hispanic, or Danny it’s gay it’s exactly the ideal world. Where those things doesn’t matter so it’s not mentioned BECAUSE it doesn’t matter. The rest of the world doesn’t care if Scott it’s Latin American or not, for Us he is just a character, like Stiles or Allison. Honest to God, we can’t see the difference.
Aaaand the sterek fans come out in full indignant force again in the comments. Way to not be a cliche guys.
I think you’re totally right. I hate how incredibly serious some Sterek shippers have gotten that they even want someone to die because of two fictional characters and because he doesn’t share the same opinion as they do. It’s a TV-Show for christ’s sake! It’s supposed to be fun! But all this constant hate is just disgusting.
I can NOT understand the mindset of the Sterek shippers who are ‘hurt’ by Poseys words. But it is that kind of… I dunno… sense of entitlement and want/need of special tender treatment that make other fans look down on Sterek shippers. Because honestly, if Dylan, or Hoechlin, or God himself said to me, personally, I think your Scisaac ship is GROSS’, it honestly wouldn’t bother me. Why should it? I am a HUGE Wincest shipper and Jared and Jensen HATE Wincest. We were forbidden to ask questions about it at conventions. We were told straight up that the actors didn’t like it. I didn’t hear anyone crying ‘But my hurt feels! I hate the RIGHT to demand the actors give attention to my ship and praise it!”
No, no I don’t have that right. And if you guys were remotely decent humans you would notice that Dylan and Hoechlin generally give pat scripted sounding answers and then turn the subject matter towards something else. Your FAVES also do NOT want to be bombarded about Sterek. They want to be asked about other roles they’re trying out for, how their lives are going, whats their fave scenes so far? (Oh wait, Dylan answered ALL THE ONES HE DOES WITH POSEY). Has it occurred to you, that as Dylans best friend, and a close friend with Hoechlin as well, Posey knows exactly how Dylan and Hoechlin feel about Sterek in for real? That maybe he’s sick of people making his friends uncomfortable with this imaginary ship that has nothing to do with their acting or skills outside of Sterek? Did you see Hoechlins smile when Posey gave his answer? And then Hoechlin didn’t amend, didn’t offer a different answer (he could have, he could have said ‘well, I dont think its twisted’), but he didn’t. He just rolled on to another subject. Doesn’t sound to me like someone who really wanted to give their opinion on the matter.
Face it, the cast are freaking sick of it. Not just Posey. Why would Holland or Ponzio or anyone else on the show really want to sit through more questions about it? It has as much to do with them as Pluto no longer being a planet. And they care just as deeply about it.
What DO they want to talk about? Future projects, their best work, their dogs, their upcoming weddings, their feelings about the actual story line. Not ‘how do you feel about my imaginary freind?’
And no, you don’t have any actual right to be hurt when they don;t want to talk about your ship any more.
As a lone individual who ships Sterek there isn’t much I can do to deter one sick individual who is going to send threats of rape or death. I can create/reblog (and I have) posts that make it clear that if you’re a person who does that you have no place following me. Personally I’m angry at the idea that I am somehow responsible for what another person does just because we share an interest. For me, as an African American women, that hits too close with other aspects of myself I’m expected to be responsible for because of similarities with others. What I’ve learned from being in an out of fandoms for years now is that it’s hard to control more fanatical factions. People with actual power within the Sterek fandom can put out post-after-post to encourage positivity but someone who sends threats to actors isn’t likely to listen to them or be moved past whatever hatred they have for Posey. To be honest, I thought the advice given above was very insightful. I follow a quite a few known lesser Sterek shippers but this sort of behavior never makes it across my dash.
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I’m going to take it one step further and say that I don’t think “but… homophobia!” is an appropriate defence against Posey’s comments (or a lot of anti-Sterek statements, come to think). As a frequently objectified female who struggled with sexual identity issues for most of my adolescence, I am all too familiar with the feeling of my personal desires being voyeuristically co-opted for someone else’s creepy pleasure (the “hot lesbian” thing, guys “jokingly” asking questions about your personal moments, wanting to watch, etc).
This is not to say that shippers are creepy and gross, mind you. But, I do think some of the reasons these slash ships come to life are less about progressive politics and more about objectification. Being somebody’s fetish is not empowering. It divorces one from their agency and turns their identity, and at times their struggles, into somebody’s play thing. It can get really gross and dehumanizing if you’re not careful.
That’s why these accusations of homophobia folks righteously parade around when other folks don’t like their slash ship bother me. It feels a little too “I like gays because Hot Boys!” which translates into “these marginalized folks are here for my amusement and titillation.” We don’t need that kind of support, frankly. It reads more like benevolent homophobia.
Ship to your heart’s content, but don’t think you’re doing the gay community any favours while you fantasize about us in relationships tailored to please the “straight gaze.”
He should have said something REALLY controversial like, ‘It’s not gonna happen people, Stiles dies at the end!’
Also, that ‘and that’s all I gotta say about that’ gif is oddly entrancing.
This is amazing, you are incredible for having so much passion and putting so much effort into this. Really amazing, as a new fandom member Im very glad I read this article. Thank you!
R u the person running the teen wolf confessions hate blog?
I think a major problem is that a lot of fans find Teen Wolf through tumblr (I did) and Sterek is one of the first things you find out about. I watched the first episode and was like “Scott?”. In every fandom there is racism, sexism, homophobia… Every fandom has it in spades in a dark little corner. I don’t think we need to say that because someone might not necessarily love Scott that it’s because he’s Latino. I’m not going to lie, I literally didn’t know this (that he is Latino) until season two and literally had a “huh? Oh, that’s kinda cool” moment. Someone’s race or gender doesn’t always have a play in how fans react. I honestly couldn’t care if Scott was white or asian or blue. It honestly doesn’t change what I love about him and what annoys me about him.
A lot of good characters and actors have left and that’s also kind of making the fandom insane too. Teen Wolf is heading in a new direction and it may or may not end well. I’m actually kind of at the point where I can’t be bothered with it all now. The show no longer has the dynamics I love and the tumblr tags drive me insane. I’m not sure how anyone else feels about this but a few of my friends have left the fandom too for this reason.
Tyler has an opinion and it may or may not have to do with how the fans put Stiles up on a pedestal. It’s like in any fandom, look at Arrow, there is a lot of love for Felicity. Game of Thrones? Tyrion and Arya seem to be consistent fan favourites. Stiles is extremely popular and with that comes all the ships he is in. It would be annoying for Tyler considering he is supposed to be the lead. Should he have said it? Maybe not but that’s just from the point of view that it obviously wasn’t going to make him popular with the fans. It might be honest but it certainly wasn’t going to win him points with the Sterek shippers that have been pretty much crowned the Captain of the Teen Wolf ship.
As a shipper (I was a Sterek shipper and now I’m just I different to the whole fandom ships for Teen Wolf), I think everyone needs to calm down. Stop fighting among yourselves. Keep it cool, enjoy the show and ship who you want to ship. Tyler Posey might not ship Sterek with you but that doesn’t mean others don’t.
I never heard of ‘Sterek’ until I saw this video on YOUTUBE ( it is called “Sterek Views”) uploaded by the Walters Judson Group. I couldn’t stop laughing!
I am appalled at the hate expressed towards Tyler Posey. I do like to read and write stories about Stiles and Derek but it will never be canon and I respect that. Maybe, deep down, Posey truly believes that pairing to be evil and twisted, but I don’t think he does. Should he feel that way, it might be because of the age difference, which is, in fact, a problem (more on that later).
I think that Teen Wolf should not have to say “we’re bringing a new gay/trans/bi character.” It should feel like everyone can, at one point, change. I would like to see J.Davis create a world where Jackson can one day date another guy and it would not be remarked upon, where Lydia can date another girl and it would not be remarked upon, where Jackson can date a girl and then a guy and it would not be remarked upon….
I want characters to be able to question their sexualities without it being the central point. I don’t want to see gay characters and bi characters and trans, etc if they are not allowed to change. Said change does not have to translate into inter-courses so that we see that they are “exploring”. It can be done in far subtler ways. I just want for the characters not to be labelled as ‘that gay/straight/trans… character’.
I want characters. Full stop. Complex, realistic, grounded characters. And if somewhere along the way they like a guy, that’s okay, and if they later date a girl, it’s okay, and if they date only girls or only guys, it’s okay, too.
Before, whenever I heard that a “gay character” had been added to a show, I felt thrilled. I realized afterwards that I should not have felt so. It never reads a new “straight character” is joining the cast so why should it be different for people of another sexual persuasion? If a character joins a show (in that case, Teen Wolf) the question should be : what is he/she going to bring? How is he/she relevant? Not, is he/she gay?
Also, if they are gay, or bi, or trans, treat their intimate scenes in a true fashion.
over-sexualised = It’s sooo okay to be gay, bi or trans and see, here’s a blowjob between guys/a couple of girls feeling each other breasts/…!
prudish = It’s okay to be gay, bi or trans as long as clothes are on.
Now, I’m not saying that you should avoid at all costs very graphic scenes or very chaste ones, I’m saying that, whatever you choose, you should do so because it’s true to the characters, to the story. If the story calls for blowjobs, by all means, go for it. Don’t make a character suck off another just to be edgy and brazen.
On a side note (and that one is for you, Teen Wolf), once you’ve picked the manner in which you want a scene to unfold, do not put one of the character through a shift. Yes, I am aware that Ethan is a werewolf. So is Scott. Yet he seems to be able to kiss the f* out of Alison without his spinal cord starting to impersonate an enraged serpent trying to break free.
I may be a bit vitriolic but I see this as pure and simple c-blocking. It was an easy cope-out. Five seconds of kissing, one nipple biting (kinky!…) aaaaaand cut. We wouldn’t want them to get really intimate, in case the audience got uncomfortable. We showed that they are gay (Yay!), now moving on. Mister Davis, if that’s the best you can do… just don’t. Instead of that mediocre session, why don’t you show them interact in a meaningful, relevant-to-the-plot kind of way? This scene was tacky, at best, and should not have been shot. Not in that way…
Coming back to Sterek not being canon…
The only reason for it not being so should be as follow :
– One is far too old (or too young).
To address the age issue, it is vital to understand two things :
Being in love and being right are not the same thing.
Being canon and being right are not the same thing. Canon only means that is is effectively taking place in the tv show and not only inside the imagination of the audience.
If Stiles and Derek were a couple, it would be wrong because of the age difference. They couldn’t have sex. However it doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be canon. Not every relationship showed on TV has to be a right one. Those kind of attractions exist, and while they are wrong, should J.Davis choose to show them, he has the right to do so. But such a relation, if it were to be, demands an exquisite handling, for it has to make it clear that the age difference hinders the whole relationship while respecting the characters involved in said relation, which means no bashing, no turning Derek into a dirty brooding creep… Let’s stay subtle, please.
The only possible relationship between Stiles and Derek is a platonic one. No older, lonely werewolf hooking up with young, pretty Stiles only for Derek to end up in jail because their relationship is wrong wrong Wrong and we want the audience to feel it with cringe-worthy details. No Derek hooking up with Stiles until one month later they’re making random hostels bed squeak because what the hell we’re in love and it’s sooo good to be wrong…
The only way is to pursue this is to show a mature, tangible and platonic relation between an adult and a teenager. One that has the potential to be great.
As for the gay/bi/… characters… Let the characters decide who it is they want to sleep with and let’s focus on crafting a world fascinating enough for them to want to live in it…
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Thank you so much for this interesting and informative article. I love the show TW, but don’t really participate in the fandom. I enjoy sterek fan fic (and scisaac and scackson) but have always recognised that canon isn’t beholden to fanon. I agree with Tyler Posey, and am horrified – but unfortunately not surprised – at the treatment he’s received, and the seeming betrayal by TPTB who seem to want to appease ‘fans’ (sorry, you’re not a real TW fan if you’re only watching it for evidence of a relationship you’ve contrived which has never been part of the show) who actually need to just grow up and realise that the show isn’t about them or their precious ships. This kind of hysterical behavior (death/rape threats!) disgusts me.
Most of this I agree with apart from the Rasism comment. I’m sorry but because of things like Stiles and Dylan in the fandom seems to be getting a lot of hate because his white. Like what? Sorry but if people prefer Stiles over Scott then it’s only because they like Stiles personality more and like me enjoy Dylan’s acting more. This is nothing to do with who is white and who is not. I personally prefer Dylan over Tyler but that is only because I can’t connect with Tyler’s loud personality and it has nothing to do with his race. The fact people seem to think it is irritated me greatly.
finally someone smart…i mean i’m not Sterek shipper (i don’t hate them either) but if i were a Sterek shipper i would be on Tyler’s side,bc he didn’t say anything wrong or hated on Sterek..sorry for my english lol and i know this post is not even from this year but who cares xd
First let me say that even before I discovered sterek I was kinda bored with Scotts as a character. His character is a little predictable but it’s definitely not the only character out there that’s like that so nbd.
Second, as I person of colour I’m use to seeing very little visible minorities on popular shows…isn’t that sad. Considering the way Latinos are treated in the US, it was a great thing that they cast a minority as the lead: I just didn’t relate to him very much, personality wise. It doesn’t have anything to do with his race; it’s just that Stiles reminds me of myself, so I relate to him better.
Third,I definitely don’t condone sending anyone death threats and I did unfollow anyone that did.
Lastly, about the ages and mental state of the characters,I did think Malia was alittle weird at first. I know that they don’t portray her as mentally 11yrs old but if you’ve been isolated in the wilderness for years, you’ll probably be aleast alittle behind mentally. ( I do like the character though and her actress) in regards to the sterek, as far as I know ,we’ve never gotten confirmation of how old Derek was at the beginning but a lot of the fan fiction I read agrees that he’s between 22-24 and a large majority of fan fiction either age stiles to 18 at least ,or make it a plot point that while Derek has liked him for a while, we wasn’t going to do anything while stiles was underage .
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okay first of all, I personally am a person of color and I ship Sterek to my highest being. I didnt even know that Scott was Latino. Seriously! But I do want Derek and Stiles to have a slowly budding romance. I want the FULL ride! OH, YEAH!
When I see comments that say that they feel similar to Stiles, I’m like… Okay, then.
But people there is a difference between ACTUALLY being like him and WANTING to be like him.
Yeah, okay, Stiles is a GREAT character, don’t get me wrong, but I think SOME people just like Dylan for his FACE. Sure he is easy on the eyes, but what about Tyler Po? He’s awesome and cute! I like his character, and it just wouldnt be the same without him, you know?
AND…. I have a feeling that STEREK might happen at least ONCE. Dont us loyal shippers deserve that?
That might not happen for a while, but once it is here it will be soooo worth it, right?
Tyler Po just needs to ignore those stupid comment and stuff. they are super stupid and would never happen. Probably.
Anyway….. Scot AND Stlies have flaws and differences for the better in character….
I’m not a fan on teen wolf, I have no feelings towards Sterek one way or the other. I am however gay, and to say that simply because people want two males to get together instead of a male and a female somehow makes them twisted. LGBTQ+ people desperately need representation and when mr posey says that wanting two characters to get together that are male is the wrong reason to be watching the show, while the show has loads of romance plots between male and female, shows that his problem is specifically with it being two males. He even discussed other ships that weren’t sterek, as in a male and female, and found no problem with people tuning in every week to see that plot.